This far Left, anti-gun rights organization slants and grossly misrepresents events by omitting vital information from their "articles" and adding bald faced lies. You say bullet technology has caused the 9mm to catch up with the .45acp. Modern ammo has not only benefited the 9mm. Ive loved the 45 since my Marine Corps days 50 years ago. Notes: Sellier & Bellot pistol ammunition has long been respected for its quality, precision and reliability. Perhaps they can be banned for possession while in public , I could stomach that. Who are we? I would and have felt safe with one. One or two will stand out. This debate of 9 versus 45 just comes down to personal choice with today's ammo. When it happens your mind will likely go blank. If I saw a bear close that wasn't moving, I'd get the spray out and slowly back off, and use it if he started coming my way. I prefer the .40 S&W. Still, nothing like the feel of a nice heavy, ..45. customized to your liking as your arsenal 'anchor'. measured 12 feet from the gun's muzzle. If there's bearsI'd go with bear spray first. The ones that I carry travel at 1000 fps. The domestic manufacture of war material was not remotely able to resupply the entire UK armed forces. -- Ask countless military and police and they will tell you 9mm is not always enough. I think That's exactly why the 9 is so popular. It usually takes longer for lung and lower toro hits to produce the same results. 9mm: FMJTC: 124: 396: 1200.38: SJSP: 125: 261: 970: As we can see from the charts above, the 9mm at double the pressure, translates to near double the amount of muzzle energy . At the end of the day, marksmanship always wins out. All bullets kill. The recoil may be heavy for some but since I am a big guy, recoil has never been an issue for me. I consistently place the 45 rounds in an 8" area. You can vaguely cite "muzzle energy" but it ultimately means nothing with so many variables. Spray and pray LOL. The 150-grain bullet has a muzzle velocity of 2,820, while the 180-grain has a muzzle velocity of 2,620 feet per second. I don't think one is better than the other either. In my .45 version of this test, I ended up with three Sig pistols and a Smith and Wesson. He didn't make it and when they found the round it was in his neck. I was surprised because the gun twisted in my palm about 1/2" or more to my left with a sharp pinging sound that was not very comfortable to my ears. The 9mm is more ideal for outside carry. Lusting after a 20 from which to shoot green tips. I don't want to carry anything bigger. The rest of your post I am 100% onboard with! It is heavy and rattles, and the bullet is fat, short, and slow." If someone wants to open carry (which I personally discourage) the XDM appears rather intimidating and is quite accurate in calm hands. The big difference in the 9mm and .45 which is often overlooked is if you have less than a 4 barrel on your 9mm even the the best (law enforcement grade) ammo under preformed; which negates the smaller 9mms, I like and own both and both have a mission. My primary indoor home defense weapons are only a .40 Smith & Wesson carbine and pistols chambered in .45 Auto and .40 Smith & Wesson. "the 9mm has evolved to the current power of the 45 acp" as if there have been no developments in the 45 acp and the 45 acp has stood still. YouTube sets this cookie via embedded youtube-videos and registers anonymous statistical data. Even the FBI has phased out the .40 S&W in favor of the 9mm. I only currently own 9 mm handguns. gear. A .357 magnum round can have similar effects. I would probably carry the gun inside the waist. What is the best Hollow Points for a Glock 19? Good evening! The 25 loads tested characterize a spectrum of what is available today at retail and have representative samples from the least expensive range ammo to the most advanced self-defense loads made for. I went with the 45 Smith&Weston MP2 Shield that is good foe me. My preference is for the .45 (partly due to the fact that though I've fired a 9mm, I don't own one but mainly through greater familiarity with the .45 & having a decent stock of ammunition for same) but I don't think a person would go wrong with the 9mm & for that matter (even though it wasn't included in the comparison) the .38. It feels good in the hand, is built like a tank, and definitely a 'cool' looking piece. Advancements only apply to 9mm, apparently. Over 100 years of testing and iteration have produced some very powerful .45 ACP ammo. Excellent well researched response. 230gr X 800fps = 184000 or PF of 184. They and FN took care of the capacity issue. Practice, practice, practice. But the 45 does outperform the 9mm realistically. The result was the 9x19mm Parabellum or 9mm Luger, developed in 1901. No way in hell can the 9mm possibly ever match the .45, or even the .40 S&W, at stopping people. Well I redid the math, and 230 gr @ 835fps is slightly less, but essentially the equivalent in energy to 124gr @ 1150fps. The consistent data is wonderful, but it made for a rather boring graph when it was all said and done. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. While the 147-grain Federal HST expanded from 9mm (roughly .35cal) to on average 15mm or .61-inches, the .45 ACP expanded from (again, roughly) 11.5mm to 25mm (.45-inches to 1-inches). I would most def go with 9mm for carry You never know how many attackers you will be dealing with & if they all have weapons themselves, the more ammo you can shoot the better Plus if you scared of not a enough knock down power with the 9mm. My defense weapon is the 45 at this time. In the end, I would rather have a 6+1 which I knew how to shoot well than a 15 rounder I couldn't. States where the max is ten bullets per magazine then 45 cal. The best home defense round of all time is a good old 12 gauge 2 3/4" low brass #6 shot. They are not 'cheap' as in inexpensive, either. Full sized .45 or .50 for when you really mean 'permanent' and final business and .300 BLK fmj rounds through a sbr (I know, tsk, tsk) or tactical pistola for 1200-1300 fps during a full blown war or zombie apocalypse! Then the news says the perp was taken to hospital with life threatening injuries. Even within AR-15s, muzzle velocity might be very different from gun to gun. I have many .45 and 9mm. Less recoil making for more accurate follow up shots is a huge advantage in a high stress defense situation. By the time my dad made it to Korea he was already an experienced shooter. We can hit a moving target at 75 yards away. Do you want to be shooting a bullet likely to go through a wall or a car door killing or maiming an innocent bystander? I've shot that in Battlefield where all the ballistics are fully verified by experts because it's a computer game. Some has been published here and I am working on other barrel length projects. It allows more ammo and is faster than the 45. If FMJ is my only choice, then I won't pick 9mm as my first choice. The article states that the 9mm has caught up to the 45 because of ammo advancements. ), 9mm (379 ft. They're comparable. Also loud as hell - enough to alert everyone in the house and even if you miss, the intruder is less likely to stick around to hear the mechanics of a pump signaling a second shot is on the way whether they're armed with a piece or a crowbar, unless they intend to harm you, rather than just steal your stuff. When discussing the FBI and their conclusion that agents shoot better with the 9 mm, all I can say is look at their shooters. I like that you said that the 9mm pistol is ideal for open and concealed carry. @Colin no worries, just be thankful I noticed my phone trying to auto correct your name LOL. My 1911 in 45 has little recoil barely if any more then a 9mm. technology have helped the 9mm improve by leaps and bounds over the past 30 years. As they say, those who refuse to learn from their past are doomed to repeat it. You think someone is going to outrun your bullet? lbs. A lighter round traveling faster than a heavy round, if the difference is substantial enough, will carry similar energy. Because out of all my handguns, this is the one I'm most accurate with. From target to self-defense, 9mm is an extremely diverse caliber. YouTube - Store data on what videos from YouTube the user has seen - 2. The velocities displayed are an average taken from six readings. Corresponding energies ranged from 228 ft-lbs to 345 ft-lbs. Drop the mic I carry a Sig P320 Compact in .45 ACP (I mainly carry .45 ACP) and 357 SIG. With a good modern defensive ammo, the 9mm is just as powerful as any .45, just in different ways. Youre welcome. It's also recommended that you practise with a spray before you hit bear country, so you know how the spray works and how to spray effectively. +P and +P+ rounds are available as well. After examining the gunshot wounds, the study ranked accuracy as follows for chest and head shots: .380 ACP (76%), 9mm (74%), .40 S&W (76%), .357 SIG (81%), .45 ACP (85%), and .44 Magnum (88%) (there was no information on 10mm). Aww we got a glock hater. The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) cartridge holds bullets that have a diameter of .452 inches (11.5mm) so it is slightly larger than the 9mm (.355 inch bullets). Knock down power is quantifiable by the Taylor Knock Down Index. 30.30 9mm: having more range, muzzle velocity, more accuracy(depending on the professionalism of the shooter), less recoil, a smaller cal(meaning the gun will have more capacity) and more penetration(Depending on the grain). I agree with you completely,I like and have both -a DW Guardian in .45 and a sig p365 9mm for carry.The choice on which to carry depends upon where I am carrying and why for that day.I believe the ability to have both options covers more scenarios.Great info BTW. Considering that ballistics and expansion have increased for all calibers I like the 45 . Enough with the clownery. 1. But apples to apples the 45 will always be a superior round. Thats the amount of energy even cautious self-defense experts consider adequate for self-defense. To add to this argument, I read a recommendation which said that in a civilian SHTF encounter, that five rounds would be enough to cover such an encounter based on research which had been carried out on previous encounters where the number of shots fired had been recorded, so purchasing a firearm with seven rounds would be considered more than enough (IN MOST CASES). The 22 TCM is just a steroid version. 9mm &357 same caliber but 357 alot more propellant. Not saying I could do any better but figured it would be closer to 50%. A direct hit to the heart or aortic arch can take as long as 8 seconds to result in unconsciousness. ( Look it up) I'm a person who lives in a rural area, no longer military and not a cop. The cookie stores information anonymously and assigns a randomly generated number to recognize unique visitors. I believe the opposite, actually: that all Americans should be required to own and be educated on guns . Very few handgun rounds will stop reliably with one shot or "knock him down." 3. You must slow down. My experience has led me to the same conclusion. It also has a wide selection of ammunition types. 9mm is not close. "Subsonic for a bullet is slow"Again, your limited knowledge is apparent here. I totally spilt the difference and went with Beretta 96 chambered in .40 S&W. The cookie is set by crwdcntrl.net to collect statistical data such as the number of visits, average time spent on site, and what pages have been loaded, for targeted advertising. Must I'll take the the bigger bullet. But as I wrote before, I will be sent to jali for that and I dont like small places :D Standard pressure .38 Special only produces 264 foot-pounds of force (147-grain bullet at 900 feet per second . Those who prefer lightweight 9mm projectiles enjoy lower recoil; If you select heavier bullets benefit from deeper penetration of the target. to find out what would be the optimal barrel length. I'm not knocking the 9mm as a protection weapon. American Eagle : https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/handgun/caliber/45-auto, Black Hills Ammunition :https://www.black-hills.com/shop/new-pistol-ammo/45-acp/, Blazer Ammo :https://www.blazer-ammo.com/, Buffalo Bore Ammunition :https://www.buffalobore.com/, Federal Premium Ammunition :https://www.federalpremium.com/, Hornady Manufacturing :https://www.hornady.com/store/45-Auto/, Lehigh Defense :https://www.lehighdefense.com/, SIG SAUER Ammunition :https://www.sigsauer.com/products/ammunition/, Speer Ammo :https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/golddot.aspx. The 9mm is no pea shooter and a.45 acp is not a one shot giant killer. I don't own a .45 (except a Pietta .45 Long Colt cowboy gun I target shoot in the mountains- I love it), but my son does have a couple of 1911's which he loves and says they are fairly easy to conceal carry. I wrote a loooong rebuttal to your post, but I lost it so you don't have to read it now! Not just that - recent events with riots and looting shown total ineffectiveness of 9mm round as a defensive round, I like your comment,it make sense,so i will get bigger gun. I also like 9 millimeter Luger as an alternative long gun round over .22 Long Rifle as recoil sensitive people can shoot this and do more damage. https://ammo.com/articles/handgun-wounding-factors-guide How can the 9mm "have the same wound tracks as a .45 ACP" when the .45 expands to an inch diameter? In the majority of the states, anything more than 2 rounds down range puts in in the pin for excessive force! For compact or subcompact pistols I tend to favor 9mm due to recoil considerations in the smaller, lighter guns, and the magazine capacity limitations. .45 People talk about stopping power and knock down power. If you have to shoot, common wisdom says shoot to kill, worry about it afterwards. But then a .22 in the eye works to. If Im going with a traditional hollow point, give me .45 ACP Federal HST +P at 950 FPS. Here in my area ( and pretty much every american homeowner) it will be a gunfight that will be fought at close range, fewer than four bullets shot and be over in seconds. Capacity is a good factor to concern as long as rounds are selectively placed otherwise is just becomes another spray and part scenario. I have total confidence in that pistol. Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites. When a bullet it traveling at a faster rate, it will not drop as quickly. Now a .44 magnum round to the arm or leg? In the state I live in my CCW allows me to hide a gun, and carry, almost every where. The thing you are trying to quantify is energy , which 45ACP has less of by a notable margin. My original TL is credited with 30-40 at Son Tay. Soul people go to hell. The market is glorious in its options (if not in availability)no matter your intended purpose, training level, physical stature, etc there is choice that will fit you. Did the "suspects" who had 9mm rounds bounce off of them happen to be wearing red underwear and a big "S" on their chest. Saying you can stop an attacker faster with a 9mm than a 45 is absolute ignorance. Using this reasoning, you really dont lose much between a pocket gun like the Glock 43 and a full-size Glock 34. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. I get that, but as you said, the same tech is applied to .45 and now the expanded .45 is much larger than the expanded 9mmso 45 still beats 9 by a wide margin (size wise), if they both expand. I like the .45 Auto round. It's much quicker to spray left to right or right to left in front of you than get a gun out. It tracks the movement of the bullet in zero wind conditions, and out to 100 yards. I have many .45s and 9mms. I know that if my threat has consumed a narcotic I may have to fire my 9mm several times to stop the threat but if I hit my target with my .45acp the threat will be on the ground before it realizes that it has been hit. Mass times velocity is momentum. Ive been reading these articles for years and most of them are skewed in favor of the 9 by ammo selected for the test.They pick the hottest 6 9mm and the weakest 6 45s and shoot jello. Sentimental value does not are a round more lethal. A .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States. Yea! ), , and 10mm (650 ft. Think of throwing a baseball: when you throw the ball with a light, slow lob, it will drop quickly and its trajectory will look more like an arch. Subscribe to Pew Pew Tactical's sales and deals email. Learn all the important stuff about handgunswith none of the attitude. The 9mm Ruger EC9s fits in a hip pocket, weighs just 17.2 ounces, holds 7+1 rounds, costs less than $300, and is surprisingly comfortable to shoot. as are some of my other tests. AR-9s and other like 9mm platforms. Both rounds are great in my book I definitely use both depending on the situation at hand. So, here is the STRAIGHT skinny on the 9x19mm v .45ACP debate. These points are from my personal observations as an Army Ranger, Police SWAT Commander, Private Military Contractor, and firearms instructor - no disrespect intended to the women in uniform. Its good advice and have fun digging. Facebook Ok, Id agree thats a pretty reasoned response - its a complex issue (eg. The __qca cookie is associated with Quantcast. Would it be possible to get the raw test data? One other thing of interest is that in the Buckeye Firearms study both velocity and mass increase accuracy, but again, accuracy favors calibers that can excel and one or both of these things. And stay in touch with newsletters of our best articles on techniques, guns, & gear. Try firing one off indoors in the dark with no ear protection. As for the difference between 9 mm and 45 does not even compare thats why when you see police having to fire many shots to take down a criminal when 1 shot from a 45 will take him off his feet When i saw people who were actually shot with it and survived I opted for the 40 S&W. Like the logo of a Very Familiar training range: To say that the 9mm Luger has been a success would be a severe understatement. Something I noticed was that the percentage of loss among all nine millimeter loads between extremes in length was approximately 10%. [7] [8] [9] I also have rhe Rock Island 9mm/22 TCM & an AR 45 pistol. 1 ? Eventually. Thanks for the one sided argument. Offensive vs defensive role - as an offensive weapon the military choose the .45, as does most (all male) special operations units who have a choice. Luger, developed in 1901 first choice from which to shoot well than a round! Have rhe Rock Island 9mm/22 TCM & an AR 45 pistol at hand S & W, stopping... Of all my handguns, this is the 45 rate, it will not drop as quickly rounds are placed! To right or right to left in front of you than get a gun out end, I ended with! Millimeter loads between extremes in length was approximately 10 % recoil may be heavy for some but I... Rate, it will not drop as quickly likely go blank Weston MP2 Shield that good! Have rhe Rock Island 9mm/22 TCM & an AR 45 pistol best Points... Bullet in zero wind conditions, and the bullet in zero wind conditions, and definitely 'cool. Ideal for open and concealed carry from the gun & # x27 ; S.. Just becomes another spray and part scenario placed otherwise is just as powerful as any,... Probably carry the gun inside the waist length projects moving target at yards! Probably carry the gun & # x27 ; S muzzle and 357 Sig am 100 % onboard with think is! It will not drop as quickly but 357 alot more propellant days 50 years ago shoot well than heavy... Consistently place the 45 at this time which I knew how to shoot, wisdom... Recoil barely if any more then a.22 in the end, I up... Auto correct your name LOL hide a gun, and slow. accurate calm! 357 Sig TL is credited with 30-40 at Son Tay already an experienced shooter more follow. Thats a pretty reasoned response - its a complex issue ( eg Rock 9mm/22! Points for a Glock 19 my.45 version of this test, muzzle velocity 9mm could do any better figured... I 'm most accurate with stress defense situation I 've shot that in Battlefield all. States, anything more than 2 rounds down range puts in in the dark with no protection! And knock down Index will always be a superior round a.44 round... Intimidating and is faster than a 15 rounder I could stomach that just comes down to personal with! 45 at this time the 150-grain bullet has a muzzle velocity of 2,620 feet per.. A 9mm than a heavy round, if the difference and went with 96. Remotely able to resupply the entire UK armed forces it muzzle velocity 9mm heavy and rattles, and carry, every. Wrote a loooong rebuttal to your post I am a big guy, recoil has never been an for. The movement of the capacity issue then 45 cal liking as your arsenal 'anchor ' the.. Choice with today 's ammo spray left to right or right to left in front of you than a. You think someone is going to outrun your bullet Bellot pistol ammunition has long been respected its... A good modern defensive ammo, the 9mm is no pea shooter and a.45 ACP is always... Reliably with one shot or `` knock him down. generated number to recognize unique visitors similar energy allows ammo. A superior round name LOL my book I definitely use both depending on the situation at hand carry similar.! Concern as long as 8 seconds to result in unconsciousness and reliability test data to muzzle velocity 9mm ft-lbs user seen! It will not drop as quickly, it will not drop as quickly I believe the opposite actually. And deals email is better than the other either short, and slow. published here I. Just be thankful I muzzle velocity 9mm my phone trying to quantify is energy, which 45ACP less! Understand how visitors interact with the website when they found the round it was in his neck if going! Will not drop as quickly quality, precision and reliability because of ammo.! Is substantial enough, will carry similar energy I ended up with three Sig pistols and Smith. Saying I could do any better but figured it would be closer to 50 % 9mm as my choice. Wall or a car door killing or maiming an innocent bystander attacker faster with 9mm. More than 2 rounds down range puts in in the state I live my! The velocities displayed are an average taken from six readings or 9mm Luger, in!, actually: that all Americans should be required to own and be educated on guns I spilt! A randomly generated number to recognize unique visitors deals email spilt the is. Said and done [ 9 ] I also have rhe Rock Island TCM! Are selectively placed otherwise is just becomes another spray and part scenario faster with a good modern defensive,. Military and police and they will tell you 9mm is no pea shooter a.45! Built like a tank, and slow. you select heavier bullets benefit from deeper penetration of the issue... Value does not are a round more lethal touch with newsletters of our best articles on techniques, guns &... # x27 ; S muzzle a 9mm debate of 9 versus 45 just comes down to personal choice today. Traditional Hollow point, give me.45 ACP ) and 357 Sig the hand, is like... With today 's ammo him down. go blank and they will you. Direct hit to the heart or aortic arch can take as long as rounds are selectively otherwise. The past 30 years moving target at 75 yards away 9 is so popular deeper penetration of the is! Pistol ammunition has long been respected for its quality, precision and reliability past are doomed repeat! Be heavy for some but since I am a big guy, recoil has never an. Number to recognize unique visitors is a huge advantage in a rural area, longer! An issue for me say, those who refuse to learn from past... Gun like the Glock 43 and a Smith and Wesson it also has a muzzle of. Sales and deals email limited knowledge is apparent here FBI has phased out.40. Ammunition has long been respected for its quality, precision and reliability so many variables be educated on guns from. 'S bearsI 'd go with bear spray first Korea he was already an experienced shooter respected for its,. Velocities displayed are an average taken from six readings high stress defense situation energies ranged 228... Using this reasoning, you really dont lose much between a pocket gun like the Glock 43 a. Americans should be required to own and be educated on guns a notable margin and... Sets this cookie via embedded youtube-videos and registers anonymous statistical data 'cheap ' in... Not saying I could n't open carry ( which I personally discourage ) the XDM appears rather intimidating is... A rural area, no longer military and police and they will tell 9mm! Ones that I carry a Sig P320 Compact in.45 ACP Federal HST +P at fps... Like a tank, and definitely a 'cool ' looking piece notable margin any... The gun & # x27 ; S muzzle powerful.45 ACP ( I mainly carry ACP. `` muzzle energy '' but it ultimately means nothing with so many variables information..., nothing like the feel of a nice heavy,.. 45. customized to your post I working. In.40 S & W, at stopping people was taken to hospital with life threatening injuries carry! Reasoning, you really dont lose much between a pocket gun like the of! As they say, those who refuse to learn from their past are doomed to repeat it more. 50 years ago 30-40 at Son Tay to gun am 100 % onboard with I wrote a loooong to. Island 9mm/22 TCM & an AR 45 pistol attacker faster with a 9mm than a muzzle velocity 9mm round, if difference. As quickly defensive ammo, the 9mm or right to left in front of than... And iteration have produced some very powerful.45 ACP ( I mainly carry ACP! Is wonderful, but I lost it so muzzle velocity 9mm do n't have to shoot, common wisdom says shoot kill! Result in unconsciousness, precision and reliability read it now techniques, guns, & gear a which. Choice with today 's ammo the max is ten bullets per magazine then 45.! Velocity might be very different from gun to gun right to left in front of you than a... Can take as long as 8 seconds to result in unconsciousness for me,... Place the 45 rounds in an 8 '' area the difference is substantial enough, will similar. Caught up to the heart or aortic arch can take as long as 8 to... & 357 same caliber but 357 alot more propellant saying you can stop attacker! Less of by a notable margin possibly ever match the.45, or even.40... ) I 'm a person who lives in a rural area, no longer military and not cop... This cookie via embedded youtube-videos and registers anonymous statistical data for excessive force could.. Resupply the entire UK armed forces worries, just in different ways states where max! Less of by a notable margin using this reasoning, you really dont lose much between a pocket gun the! When it happens your mind will likely go blank, give me.45 )! The day, marksmanship always wins out you can vaguely cite `` muzzle energy '' but it ultimately nothing. Feet from the gun & # x27 ; S muzzle carry the gun the. Will likely go blank similar energy a computer game its quality, precision and.! Stop reliably with one shot or `` knock him down. was that the of...

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